"BLACK HOLE: Uno Sguardo Sull'Underground Italiano" interview

by marcs77

What underground means and what's all about? Could it be compared to a black hole? That region of space-time which, because of its strong gravitational fields, absorbs all those subcultures and art forms like music, literature, theater, cinema that are not striving for or will never get the chance to go under the spotlights of mass pop culture?
That was my initial take on one of the likely meanings of title for the book/movie documentary project “BLACK HOLE: Uno Sguardo Sull'Underground Italiano” -Black Hole: an overview on Italian underground.
Turi Messineo, 29 years old, from Palermo, Sicily got started with the hardcore punk in his teens and over these formative years to the adulthood he has put enough experiences, connections and in-depth knowledge under his belt to embark himself into an ambitious yet challenging project to write a book and, with the cooperation of young movie maker Claudio Stanghellini, make a movie about the Italian underground.

This project got finalized into the paper book “BLACK HOLE: Uno Sguardo Sull'Underground Italiano” to be published by Eris edizioni beginning of 2015 and the movie, he wrote and directed, bringing the same title.
We thought now it was the perfect time to interview Turi about “Black Hole” and everything related. Read on what he has to say...

gan: Hey Turi how's all in life?

Hi Marco, firstly thank you so much for this chance and thanks for the time you've spent for me and my project here in this interview. At this time I’m in Milan, I moved here during last October 2013 because I won a scholarship for a master course in music production and sound design, so I will stay here until the end of December 2014.
This year was really busy for me. I’m waiting for the latest corrections to my book by my editors, and I’m working hard on my movie with Claudio, I can’t wait to have all finished in my hands because it was a very long work.
I’m playing a lot with my band Onoda; we celebrated our first year last week and it’s amazing for me. This year we played more than 30 shows, we’ve done a great European tour last April and we still have other shows booked until the end of this 2014. With my other band Chains we’re going to record a new album in November and during the same month we will play two shows in Milan and Bologna so it is going well. I’m fine, who could ask for more?

gan: First off, can you please offer a low-down on this project called “Black Hole”? How and when it moved from a rough idea to a something more concrete?

Well, as you know… and we’ve known for a long long time now, I’m living the “scene” since I was a teenager. I had my first contact with this “scene” when I was thirteen, just arrived at the high school starting to play with a classmate in his house because he had all the instruments, his parents were musicians so, I started to play the drums with him in a crazy punkrock project, and slowly I got to know them all. My first record I bought when I was thirteen was “About The Time” from Pennywise; after that I bought “Something’s Gotta Give” from Agnostic Front, and wow everything changed. I was fifteen and until I turned eighteen I attended a lot the skinhead SHARP scene of Palermo, my hometown but at the same time I attended every punk and hardcore shows in town and outside my town, in Rome and Milan also... so I knew the straight edge attitude and I said to me, ok this is my way… with the help of a particular person, Marco Geraci, who was the drummer of our local straightedge band called xNo Way Outx. Amazing time… after that moment I played in a lot of good hardcore band like For The Cause, The Break, The Limit, and my ValuesxItact a family before a band... you know, we had a lot of adventures together, we played in everywhere, we played the Ieper Fest 2005 and it was amazing… so, during all these years… now I'm twenty nine years old, I have really seen it all; I've traveled in Europe with all my bands, I did also travel abroad alone for the love and the passion that binds me to this world, a world which I can’t do without because part of myself. A lot of friends, and people around me, tell me often that I'm a fanatic, a madman, that I’m too old so I should also slow down but I'd be bad, I feel bad when I haven't all this around me, inside me and I do not think I'll ever stop me; now I'm playing with other two bands...
Well, I told clearly about all these adventures even to my partner, Enza, we've been together five years and half now, so during last February, in Bologna, she told to me, why don’t you write a bit about all of these stories? You've seen it all in your life, why don’t you write a book? So, I started to work on the project.
“Black Hole” will be a book and a movie documentary, which I wrote and directed from the beginning and that will feature inside accounts, stories, memories and points of views that came out from the words of the interviewees, who are more than eighty (Dee Mo from Isola Posse Allstar, Steno from Nabat, Holy from Milan, Cento Canesio the writerz, Mungo from Declino, Strength Approach and To Kill from Rome, Lara Rongoni from Sonne Film and Ne Carne Ne Pesce and more…), and will be covering a period from the late 70’s to today. Inside the volume I've been trying to give space to everything related to the underground in Italy; from student and political movements that marked the most difficult years in our history back in the 60s and 70s to the reality of occupied spaces and clearing outs, the free and independent radios, punk hardcore music and the attitude that surrounds the notes, the power of the word pushed by rap and hip hop rhythms, then the “posse” up to the vegan and vegetarian choices that are a constant in many quarters of underground, tattoos and a broad overview of what might be called a "behind the scenes" so booking agencies, screen printing, collective and the DIY concept, magazines, fanzines and webzines, photos and videos.
As already said the book will be out on the publishing house Edizioni Eris from Turin and the movie is currently being edited at the studio of Claudio Stanghellini Videomaker in Bologna. In the coming four months the four trailer, different from each other, will come out to give a sneak peak on everything until we get to the first months of 2015, when the book and movie will all be finally ready for presentation, distribution and projections.

gan: I wanna now turn back the question you did to me in the interview for Black Hole. What's in your view the underground? At this stage you should have reached a solid knowledge level, perhaps enough for getting a degree on this topic...

This is an hard question and I realized that also when doing it to my interviewees. The underground is genuine, it is a strong sense of mutual loyalty and cooperation, and it is a well-established "alternative" culture identified as fundamental, without any shame or lack. Against all the trends the underground instead sought to give voice and space to those cultures and movements that are not recognized as official or cultural. The underground creates ideas and force people to build their own person. What’s legal? What’s illegal?
None of these rules form this world, I think, and it doesn’t exist or should not exist the strongest and the weakest in this world. There is no space for a "care free" mindset then, like the famous thing of "I don’t care," the standard values count for nothing. You live every moment to the best of expectations and with all possible forces without thinking too much. All values are placed within a field of battle where everyone can find and outline their own profile and each of these profiles, in turn, will receive from the "community" a total of "like" and "dislike" as a trade, not as a real competition, hopefully.
The attitude, the attitude will stand in front of the values futile, in front of the consumption, the mass.
About me? I was literally sucked into this world when I was around thirteen… To live a reality as my hometown underground scene, Palermo city, helped me, I think, to run a bit faster than the normal trend that the other scenes had around in Italy had. This given the distance and the difficulties we had in Palermo moving to reach out to other cities to see shows and event, to participate meetings, to keep the attitude... but nothing has stopped the development of what that finally made me up from the first moment. This is not a "pride" but a real growth that I got to live among the twists and turns of this dark world gaining step by step the single most important thing for myself, myself… and yeah, music saved my life and the music is my life.

gan: What you have got to learn from all these contributions and how this project enriched you as an individual?

When I tell these stories, the lump in my throat is instantaneous as we say in Italy, by the way... Too often when I talk about it with friends, or with the people around me, I realize that it can be boring but I can’t stop to be, I can’t stop to do it, and hardcore, punk, underground for me is the way, is identity, I am all of this, I am…and nothing more. Sometimes, when I watch all the pics collected and preserved in the hard-disk or the albums at home I feel strong emotions, and when I read the old texts, or interviews with old characters of the periods that I have lived I get excited. A lot of people say to live in this way it could be a mistake, but I could also do it all again.
To hear stories, meet all these people and see all these places during my study tour for writing the book was crazy. I’ve got a direct exchange with people that for me were as heroes since I was a teen. I’ve seen places that I already knew or that I had only heard about or maybe I had read in books or zines. I found availability but I also often had communication problems. I tried to immerse myself in these stories and the lives of the people that I have chosen for my interviews and I've learned many things I did not know before. I tried all the way to advise me I didn’t want to make too much of my head I have not felt this as the right thing. This just ‘cause I think that this world is made by the union of the most and not by the prevalence of a single mind in specific... I want to thank in particular Fabrizio Mastello about the help gave me in the conduct of interviews in Rome and Turin, and I want to thank all the people who have written to me in recent months, giving me titles of interesting books, web sites, as did the best Frenz from Bologna, or Alberto from Palermo an old and good friend of mine... I also took inspiration from various texts as it was for the thesis of Andrea on DIY, a beautiful writing… and I confirm, the best interview done was the interview with the big Dee Mo, so I devoted to him an entire chapter in my book.
Everything I have told in this book is not a lesson in school, it doesn't want to be a description for strength training to those who will read it, no, absolutely not!
Everything I've tried to convey with the writing of this volume is part of real life, part of a little world within the world officially recognized, which in my opinion could be considered more, or better, and that sooner or later it had be told.
Underground is not subculture but it is a world that though so obscure it contains and it might contain and give the same depth of a "Black Hole."
I'm not pulling any definitive conclusions, it will be an account, a collection of short stories, a sound that has been issued by the voices of all those who I've been able to interview. This is the all-seeing eye hidden in the shadows, this is the tale of years and years of ideology, of passion, of struggle, of occupations, of experience, of time lost, choices, sacrifice, risk, danger, fun, moments, music, screams. This is not an end but the beginning of a new beginning of a new beginning of our past, this is Black Hole, a simple look about the Italian underground.

gan: What's been the toughest part of the whole project?

First of all, to collect all the contacts for the interviews and arrange all the appointments in about but the toughest part I think it has been to listen to all the interviews and write what was said in them word by word… crazy time.

gan: I know also this one is gonna be a pretty tough one. Is there any interview, contribution or bit of the book/documentary you're most proud of or do you think it will grab more the attention of readers/viewers? If any, why?

As I told you before, the interview with Dee Mo is the best interview done of my volume.
In my past I had so often heard of “Isola Posse All Star” and the history of this crew but to be honest I never concentrated so much on the character in question, Dee Mo or Speaker Dee Mo as he is remembered by many.
I immediately got to work, I looked in the internet and I contacted him via email but our first approach wasn't a good one because he was in the process of moving from Bologna to Milan and after a series of email exchanges I ended up not feeling it to be a good time.
Now, the choice to devote an entire chapter to a person like Dee Mo it will maybe sound strange to many, or maybe even crazy or wrong, but for me, and I can say it without problems, is one of the right things that I could do for this volume and to the history of our underground.
He is a cross character, who has had first hand experience of any kind in this environment, which began with the punk and continued with hip hop, which has specialized in the design with the writing on the streets and has established himself professionally as a graphic designer; as a young boy since the end of the 70s he stepped on every type of scene, traveled, shared moments, occupied spaces, stages, music, and has marked a time.
His name is in every story, in every interview, from Turin to Milan, from Vicenza to Bologna, from Rome to Palermo, his name is in every story and everyone of these he is remembered as a "great", "genius", "an innovator”.
Dee Mo went on tour with Declino and Negazione around Europe. Dee Mo, Dayaki painted on the walls of Romagna already in '86 and '87. Dee Mo was traveling with Fugazi. Dee Mo was Isola Del Kantiere in Bologna. Dee Mo was Isola Posse All Star. Dee Mo was Zona Dopa Crew. Dee Mo was "Sfida Al Buio" that has left an indelible mark in the history of Italian hip hop. A person who beats his time indeed in many parts of this world.

gan: The result of almost 2 years of hard work comes in the form of a book and a video documentary. Today's tech-world VS more old-school and old-fashioned world of paperback book? I guess you like both but if you had to chose one only what your choice would be?

I only want to say, internet and among all the modern technologies is in my opinion one of the most useful things that exist, fast, full of information, even if it hurt too often, exploited and used worse. The value of the printed paper is immense so, I think especially the youngest guys should understand this thing. We read too little, or too fast; the ink, writing, drawing and graphics should still be a base but instead we are losing all this.
I would like to get with my project also in the schools for this reason. I would like to launch a clear message; to get kids understand that it is a step back in time but keeping the value of writing and the paper will remain forever the primary source or one of the primary sources of culture, compared to a screen... and the same thing goes for music: you can download millions of albums but this action will never have the same weight as buying a record for real, especially at all the shows in around, supporting the bands and artists who, with their money and their time created that product, their music.

gan: Torino based Eris edizioni will be publishing the book. How did you get in touch with them and manage to get them into your project? Are you satisfied with the work they have done thus far?

Oh yeah, I’m not only satisfied my dear Marco, I’m really proud and glad to be part of Eris Edition and to cooperate with these awesome guys. I have known Eris Edition among Fabrizio Mastello, and it was after a quick email exchange that they asked me to talk together about the entire work. So I met them in Turin… Meanwhile I looked at their works, have you ever taken a look? Comics and beautiful stories, social content cared for, interest in the present and the past, gentle manners and attention to communication and relationships with the people they work with, Eris editions is really a great reality.
Take a look: http://www.erisedizioni.org/home.html

gan: And what about the choice of the young videomaker Claudio Stanghellini for the film?

I decided to work on the editing of the movie with Claudio, first of all because he’s a dear friend to me, we also play together in Onoda and definitely because I can trust him. It 'a very good videomaker, we had already worked together for the video clip of my old band whales'island and I know almost all his work in the field of music especially, he rulez and is helping me a lot.
Take a look: http://claudiostanghellini.com/

gan: Did the teenager Turi ever think that he would be some 15 years later committing to a project like “Black Hole”?

Absolutely not, ahahah!

gan: Okay, that's about it for me. Turi I thank you for taking the time to reply our questions and I wanna give you some more space for final words and plugs.

Marco, guys, thank you so much for the opportunity you have given me one more time.
Gotanerve has become a symbol of our scene, I really hope that we can still work even after the release of the book, and I hope to see you soon at some shows. What can I say, I'm always doing the best, hopefully, I will accept any kind of criticism, to grow and go ahead, because this is what I made up of.

Check: www.facebook.com/blackholeundergroundita