by Michela A.
It’s been hard to catch Joey “Shithead” from D.O.A. after their show at Arci Lo-Fi in Milan, among deserved congrats, photos and also goodbyes (being DOA’s “farewell tour”). But definitely worth sharing views with D.O.A.’s legendary leader and Canada’s Godfather of punk! Whether you agree with him or not, this man really has tons of stories to tell. A blasting, intense show including songs from the last album “We Come In Peace” and D.O.A.’s early stuff didn’t wear Joey out and we talked a while about his and D.O.A.’s activism, Canadian punk-hardcore scene and more. Warning: if you expect the typical band’s-music-and future-projects interview you may get really disappointed. “Talk-action= zero!”
gan: So you are on Farewell tour now! Why farewell? How did you come to this decision?
Joey-Well, you can’t do everything forever and...I want go on trying to make a change in this world and I’ve been trying to do it through political commitment too.. I know really that politics and politicians broke down the planet in the worst way for being corrupt.. I mean, not all, but half of them are crooked. I think you have to try to get people engaged in democratic fashion, so they feel they have a say in what’s going on and you have to try to make people feel they have a stake in their lives and let them trust again. ‘Cause people decide and young people are really disheartened because they feel they have no decision-making power at all. So this is the idea of democracy I’ve been pushing to DOA for 35 years. Now, I think it would take a different step. Not sure it’s a better one but, a different one that’s for sure. I think that most people I talk to wish me good luck but..without saying so they hope I get diffident so I keep playing music right? Ahahah!!
gan: Ahahaha! You started playing with D.O.A. in ’78 and I know that there were kind of militant armed actions in Canada at that time, kind of “urban guerrilla”, such as bombing.. and some guys from the punk scene were involved in this kind of actions..I ‘m talking about the “Vancouver Five” …
Joey-Ok, right …
gan: Well, I know that your motto has always been: “Talk-action = zero”..but..which kind of action do D.O.A. support, (“action” meaning political protest action, of course). Are there any boundaries to the actions D.O.A support?
Joey-Well, as concerns the Vancouver 5, they set up a series of bombs and we tried to help them to get a fair trial, yes because we didn’t think that in front of the public opinion they would have had a fair trial, so we did benefit shows for this. One of them was a friend, coming from the punk rock scene of Vancouver. Well, at no time I’ve ever said and we have ever said or would ever say that to bomb something is the right way to change things. I think we have to take a bigger peaceful protest.. I mean, probably the prime example would be Mahatma Gandhi who lead his country to peaceful protest. Now we live in a civil society here, I mean, I can talk to you about my political opinion without the danger of being killed.. while, in many part of the World, for example in some part of Africa, people can’t. But at the same time, if you look at Egypt, Tunisia and what’s happening through the social media.. well it means that you can change things, it’s gonna be proven that for better and for worse, social media can start a revolution today, change a country. If you look back to 5 years ago, you realize that things changed.
gan: What do you think about the Occupy movement?
Joey-I think it’s great!
gan: I know that you support it as DOA...
Joey-Yes, lot of people got involved and they tried to subvert it, well, not subvert it, it’s not the right word, they tried to take it in a different direction. People previously didn’t know that 1% of the people of the world control most of the world. Well, we will always have rich people, as there will always be poor people, but what we’re trying to do with the Occupy movement, and whatever it turns into (‘cause it’s going to change name and change form, I believe) we’re looking for more equity, more justice in the world, so people, must have more, whether they live in the first, in the second or in the so-called “third world”. The movement is terribly strong and some cities were responsible of trying to break up the occupy camps with police..or in some cases they changed the rules, they’ve been trying to stop this camps again. But I think that anyway it is a great fact because before, people thinking in this terms were just the 1%, but now they’re more things are changing.. slowly.. but they’re changing.
gan: You gave several benefit concerts as D.O.A...are there any particular issues that are closer to your heart? I mean, environment, anti-racism...
Joey-We got involved in anti-racism things, since we started in the ‘80s. It is always a matter of legitimacy, there was racism in some ways and there is in other ways.. I mean, look at Europe, if I think about the European Cup, a couple of years ago, Ukraine and Belarus...
gan: Yes, actually Europe sadly experiences lots of racist acts. Maybe some European countries aren’t as multicultural as Canada and this could in part explain (not justify) the racism we regrettably experience...
Joey-By the way, I know that Italian Government has its first African woman as minister.. isn’t it?
gan: Yes, and in fact she’s victim of racist behaviors too and sometimes they come from right-wing parties whose members seat in the Italian parliament...
Joey-I also know about the tragedies of refugees drowning while crossing the Mediterranean sea to reach Italy...
gan: You’re right and really well informed, that’s all sadly true. And what about Canada?
Joey-Well, in the small towns people may not be really integrated but if you take cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver that’s different.. my younger son for example, he goes to school and it’s 1/3 white people, 1/3 south Asian, 1/3 Chinese. Canada is a multicultural country, and Vancouver is the biggest Asian town outside of Asia...
gan: In Canada?
Joey-No, outside of Asia! in the world!
gan: Interesting! And what about native people rights in Canada?
Joey-Well that’s the biggest issue. For most of countries there are treaties signed, fair or unfair and.. it’s somewhat like Australia, but not quite the same: there are aboriginal people in Canada and we call them “First Nations”. There is fraud from the side of the government: there are problems with health, education, drug abuse, unclean water, and that’s bizarre because we have the most fresh water of any country in the world, more than Russia too. And it seems strange that some people in Canada can’t have clean drinking water, being a really rich country. And also, Canada has a strong education system, but some people don’t really have the right to and cannot benefit from this, due to the lack of other essential rights. This is amazingly wrong…
gan: I agree...Something about D.O.A. now. Let’s clarify an endless doubt..”Dead or Alive” or “Dead on Arrival”? I thought it was “Dead on arrival” but I keep reading around “Dead or Alive”...
Joey-Dead on Arrival! We took that name form John F. Kennedy, so he was shot and when he arrived to the hospital, they put a toe-tag, well in North America they put a tag on your toe saying “D.O.A.”, for “Dead on Arrival”, and that’s a famous movie too.
gan: I read that” Hardcore ’81”and “Something better change” are listed among the top Canadian Albums of all time...
Joey-Yeah and I was really happy about that...
gan: I totally agree with the rankings but.. what about the other D.O.A albums? Do you think that some of your other albums have been underrated, maybe?
Joey-Yeah, I mean, to me, the best albums DOA did were “Hardcore ’81”, “Something better change” and “War on 45” and I like some that we’ve done later but it’s.. well I’m a big fun of Iggy Pop and I believe that Iggy Pop pretty well invented punk- rock, well there were Clash, Ramones, but he invented punk rock. Anyway, he made good songs and he still comes up with good songs, but I don’t think he makes good albums anymore. The first three albums of the Stooges , as the first albums of every band, defines who you are as an artist and then as you go on, you try to add songs, but I think it would be hard topping what you did in the first two or three albums.
gan: I went to their gig last year in Verona, the whole concert was awesome, they played for 2 hours but most of all I appreciated the songs of the first albums...
Joey-Yes, and the same for D.O.A: it’s the early stuff that makes people go crazy The new album “We come in peace”..I think it sounds great, well I think it has good songs, but I can’t make people go crazy about it if they prefer our first records!
gan: Sure! “Hardcore ’81” is considered a fundamental album for hardcore but, what does hardcore mean to D.O.A.? Maybe you are more considered as punk and not as hardcore...
Joey-Well I think our music is hardcore-punk, because, well, the way you look at hardcore now, it’s almost a different type of music, you know, it’s like a crossover, I think we can call it crossover-trash, do you know in which sense? But originally we came out with the term “hardcore” and popularized it with the album “Hardcore ‘81”, but we call D.O.A. as a hardcore punk-rock band. Hardcore means being true to our roots and believing we can make some change in the World.
gan: I read that Vancouver’s mayor in 2003 declared December 21st the “D.O.A. day”..it sounds so odd! Don’t you find it contradictory from an authority? How did you react?
Joey- I was very surprised! It’s an interesting thing because D.O.A.’s a funny phenomenon that starts in Vancouver, and then spread out, we became known around the world but we were best known in Canada, you know, but we were really really really well known in Vancouver and BC...
gan: You have strong ties with your city, isn’t it?
Joey-Yeah, this is where we grew up and DOA basically became Vancouver’s protest band...if there was and if there is something wrong like a war or a strike, or something like that, then people phone me up and say “Hey, do you think that DOA can come and play?”
gan: You are “The Band” in Vancouver!
Joey- Yes! And in 2002 there was a council and the mayor Larry Campbell must had thought that we did something fine for Vancouver and then came out with “D.O.A. Day”.
gan: And how do you celebrate DOA day?
Joey-Well we don’t do that much, we have few a few beers, and talk, it’s not like a parade...
Joey-Well, in the small towns people may not be really integrated but if you take cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver that’s different.. my younger son for example, he goes to school and it’s 1/3 white people, 1/3 south Asian, 1/3 Chinese. Canada is a multicultural country, and Vancouver is the biggest Asian town outside of Asia...
gan: In Canada?
Joey-No, outside of Asia! in the world!
gan: Interesting! And what about native people rights in Canada?
Joey-Well that’s the biggest issue. For most of countries there are treaties signed, fair or unfair and.. it’s somewhat like Australia, but not quite the same: there are aboriginal people in Canada and we call them “First Nations”. There is fraud from the side of the government: there are problems with health, education, drug abuse, unclean water, and that’s bizarre because we have the most fresh water of any country in the world, more than Russia too. And it seems strange that some people in Canada can’t have clean drinking water, being a really rich country. And also, Canada has a strong education system, but some people don’t really have the right to and cannot benefit from this, due to the lack of other essential rights. This is amazingly wrong…
gan: I agree...Something about D.O.A. now. Let’s clarify an endless doubt..”Dead or Alive” or “Dead on Arrival”? I thought it was “Dead on arrival” but I keep reading around “Dead or Alive”...
Joey-Dead on Arrival! We took that name form John F. Kennedy, so he was shot and when he arrived to the hospital, they put a toe-tag, well in North America they put a tag on your toe saying “D.O.A.”, for “Dead on Arrival”, and that’s a famous movie too.
gan: I read that” Hardcore ’81”and “Something better change” are listed among the top Canadian Albums of all time...
Joey-Yeah and I was really happy about that...
gan: I totally agree with the rankings but.. what about the other D.O.A albums? Do you think that some of your other albums have been underrated, maybe?
Joey-Yeah, I mean, to me, the best albums DOA did were “Hardcore ’81”, “Something better change” and “War on 45” and I like some that we’ve done later but it’s.. well I’m a big fun of Iggy Pop and I believe that Iggy Pop pretty well invented punk- rock, well there were Clash, Ramones, but he invented punk rock. Anyway, he made good songs and he still comes up with good songs, but I don’t think he makes good albums anymore. The first three albums of the Stooges , as the first albums of every band, defines who you are as an artist and then as you go on, you try to add songs, but I think it would be hard topping what you did in the first two or three albums.
gan: I went to their gig last year in Verona, the whole concert was awesome, they played for 2 hours but most of all I appreciated the songs of the first albums...
Joey-Yes, and the same for D.O.A: it’s the early stuff that makes people go crazy The new album “We come in peace”..I think it sounds great, well I think it has good songs, but I can’t make people go crazy about it if they prefer our first records!
gan: Sure! “Hardcore ’81” is considered a fundamental album for hardcore but, what does hardcore mean to D.O.A.? Maybe you are more considered as punk and not as hardcore...
Joey-Well I think our music is hardcore-punk, because, well, the way you look at hardcore now, it’s almost a different type of music, you know, it’s like a crossover, I think we can call it crossover-trash, do you know in which sense? But originally we came out with the term “hardcore” and popularized it with the album “Hardcore ‘81”, but we call D.O.A. as a hardcore punk-rock band. Hardcore means being true to our roots and believing we can make some change in the World.
gan: I read that Vancouver’s mayor in 2003 declared December 21st the “D.O.A. day”..it sounds so odd! Don’t you find it contradictory from an authority? How did you react?
Joey- I was very surprised! It’s an interesting thing because D.O.A.’s a funny phenomenon that starts in Vancouver, and then spread out, we became known around the world but we were best known in Canada, you know, but we were really really really well known in Vancouver and BC...
gan: You have strong ties with your city, isn’t it?
Joey-Yeah, this is where we grew up and DOA basically became Vancouver’s protest band...if there was and if there is something wrong like a war or a strike, or something like that, then people phone me up and say “Hey, do you think that DOA can come and play?”
gan: You are “The Band” in Vancouver!
Joey- Yes! And in 2002 there was a council and the mayor Larry Campbell must had thought that we did something fine for Vancouver and then came out with “D.O.A. Day”.
gan: And how do you celebrate DOA day?
Joey-Well we don’t do that much, we have few a few beers, and talk, it’s not like a parade...
gan: Do you have a show?
Joey-Well sometimes, some years, but not always..it’s too close to Christmas...
gan: Not a good period of the year?
Joey-Oh, no, it is! It is a great moment because there’s always some holiday and people don’t want to go anywhere because it’s Christmas time...
gan: That’s good then! And talking about the scene..Vancouver and Canada have and have always had a big punk-hardcore scene but when people talk about punk and hardcore, in Europe at least, usually take UK and US as references and not Canada, although we know and listen lots of Canadian punk –hc bands such as DOA, SNFU, Nomeansno, Dayglo Abortions, Cancer Bats and other..why?
Joey-Well, I think that it’s because we come from a small place, a peripheral country, and since millions of years the world has always been centered in Rome and Milan...
gan: Ahaha! No, not now!
Joey-Well I think that the best punk bands are from California and English punk bands did very well because English record companies really knew how to sell music around the World.
gan: So do you think it’s a matter of labels too?
Joey-Yes, English labels were better than American labels and American labels were better that Canadian labels..so...
gan: You too have a label, don’t you?
Joey-Yes, Sudden Death Records!
Well, going back to your question, I’m always amazed when I go to Europe, about how many English punk rock bands are here and back home I’ve almost never heard ‘bout them. Around the world people know English punk rock bands but in the States and in Canada, people listen to American and Canadian bands, although lots of English bands are popular over here, I think about the Angelic Upstarts for example...
gan: That’s interesting. And what about the audience? Do you find any differences when you play in Europe compared to US or Canada?
Joey-Well sometimes, some years, but not always..it’s too close to Christmas...
gan: Not a good period of the year?
Joey-Oh, no, it is! It is a great moment because there’s always some holiday and people don’t want to go anywhere because it’s Christmas time...
gan: That’s good then! And talking about the scene..Vancouver and Canada have and have always had a big punk-hardcore scene but when people talk about punk and hardcore, in Europe at least, usually take UK and US as references and not Canada, although we know and listen lots of Canadian punk –hc bands such as DOA, SNFU, Nomeansno, Dayglo Abortions, Cancer Bats and other..why?
Joey-Well, I think that it’s because we come from a small place, a peripheral country, and since millions of years the world has always been centered in Rome and Milan...
gan: Ahaha! No, not now!
Joey-Well I think that the best punk bands are from California and English punk bands did very well because English record companies really knew how to sell music around the World.
gan: So do you think it’s a matter of labels too?
Joey-Yes, English labels were better than American labels and American labels were better that Canadian labels..so...
gan: You too have a label, don’t you?
Joey-Yes, Sudden Death Records!
Well, going back to your question, I’m always amazed when I go to Europe, about how many English punk rock bands are here and back home I’ve almost never heard ‘bout them. Around the world people know English punk rock bands but in the States and in Canada, people listen to American and Canadian bands, although lots of English bands are popular over here, I think about the Angelic Upstarts for example...
gan: That’s interesting. And what about the audience? Do you find any differences when you play in Europe compared to US or Canada?
Joey-When we play in Canada, we get really young audience...well, our best area is Canada and the West Coast in US, like Washington, Oregon and California, so the audience we get there would be like, half or a third of my age, because they’ve known D.O.A. for longtime and we are really popular there. In Europe.. there’s the oldest audience we get! I guess young kids don’t know D.O.A. or maybe punk rock has changed..I don’t’ know but that’s how it is.. we can’t control that!
gan: Curious!
Joey-Yeah, we play shows in Canada and we get kids that are 18, 20 years old, maybe between 18 and 30 that’s the audience’ average...
gan: What about Canadian and Vancouver’s hardcore-punk scene today? Do you notice any relevant changes?
Joey-Well I think that the big thing about punk rock in North America is the pop-punk thing, you know, there are tons of bands that aren’t great but they’re very popular among kids in high school in North America, we call them “mall punk”..going to the mall, buying punk rock T-shirts..
gan: More fashion than music and contents...
Joey-Yeah, but there’s also another side, there is a really good underground, around North America, of younger people, who are active in politics, which is really what I’m interested in...
gan: And do you see the same level of political commitment in current punk bands? I mean, if compared to 30-40 years ago? Are there any groups or bands that picked up the torch?
Joey-Yes, there are a few, well, I’m not a great expert on new bands, nor I can pretend to be, but I think it’s really pregnant that young people and younger bands figure out what the fuck is going on because we’re not doing much right now and ..Well, actually it’s a period of time now, where people get to be activists. Well, my wife and I, before we get married, we organized protests against fees, war, racism, nuclear power.. kids..do it on the phone now! There’s a lot of power in the phone..
gan: Yes we have more media now, more sources of information...
Joey- Yeah, we have more media, but we also have more distractions. Young people need like the spark, that make them go, but apparently it hasn’t happened yet, but it could, well, there’s always a chance. It’s a circle.. When I was a teenager, my political thing comes much from the Vietnam war and that’s so horrible that people forgot it and always need these bigger facts to get involved...
gan: Maybe now it’s easier to get the information..but the action is something else, something more...
Joey-Yes, maybe young people are more informed, or they have more means of info..at their disposal..but it’s up to them to do something, it depends on their efforts...
gan: Coming back to DOA, you’ve been touring all round the world for the last 35 years, is there any country, place or context you like most? (Italy is not a valid answer!)
gan: Curious!
Joey-Yeah, we play shows in Canada and we get kids that are 18, 20 years old, maybe between 18 and 30 that’s the audience’ average...
gan: What about Canadian and Vancouver’s hardcore-punk scene today? Do you notice any relevant changes?
Joey-Well I think that the big thing about punk rock in North America is the pop-punk thing, you know, there are tons of bands that aren’t great but they’re very popular among kids in high school in North America, we call them “mall punk”..going to the mall, buying punk rock T-shirts..
gan: More fashion than music and contents...
Joey-Yeah, but there’s also another side, there is a really good underground, around North America, of younger people, who are active in politics, which is really what I’m interested in...
gan: And do you see the same level of political commitment in current punk bands? I mean, if compared to 30-40 years ago? Are there any groups or bands that picked up the torch?
Joey-Yes, there are a few, well, I’m not a great expert on new bands, nor I can pretend to be, but I think it’s really pregnant that young people and younger bands figure out what the fuck is going on because we’re not doing much right now and ..Well, actually it’s a period of time now, where people get to be activists. Well, my wife and I, before we get married, we organized protests against fees, war, racism, nuclear power.. kids..do it on the phone now! There’s a lot of power in the phone..
gan: Yes we have more media now, more sources of information...
Joey- Yeah, we have more media, but we also have more distractions. Young people need like the spark, that make them go, but apparently it hasn’t happened yet, but it could, well, there’s always a chance. It’s a circle.. When I was a teenager, my political thing comes much from the Vietnam war and that’s so horrible that people forgot it and always need these bigger facts to get involved...
gan: Maybe now it’s easier to get the information..but the action is something else, something more...
Joey-Yes, maybe young people are more informed, or they have more means of info..at their disposal..but it’s up to them to do something, it depends on their efforts...
gan: Coming back to DOA, you’ve been touring all round the world for the last 35 years, is there any country, place or context you like most? (Italy is not a valid answer!)
Joey-Well, that’s not because you’re here but.. Italy is one of the best places, we’ve done a lot of big shows...
gan: And you played several times in Italy...
Joey-Yes about 10 times, actually...
gan: And talking about the future? Being a Farewell tour we won’t see you here anymore.. Future plans?
Joey-Well, politics.. and talking about music, I will still run my record label, Sudden Death Records, and I’m working on a new book at the moment.
gan: I know it’s not your first book..
Joey-Yes, I wrote: “I, Shithead: A Life in Punk” and “Talk-Action=0 (..)”
gan: And can you tell us something about the new book?
gan: And you played several times in Italy...
Joey-Yes about 10 times, actually...
gan: And talking about the future? Being a Farewell tour we won’t see you here anymore.. Future plans?
Joey-Well, politics.. and talking about music, I will still run my record label, Sudden Death Records, and I’m working on a new book at the moment.
gan: I know it’s not your first book..
Joey-Yes, I wrote: “I, Shithead: A Life in Punk” and “Talk-Action=0 (..)”
gan: And can you tell us something about the new book?
Joey-Well it won’t be about D.O.A..but about culture, politics..that’s what I’m working on...
gan: No more shows with DOA then?
Joey-Well.. who knows? Let’s see what we can do!
gan: That’s all Joey, thank you for your time. Hope to see you again on stage, good luck with all your projects!
Check: www.facebook.com/DOAPUNK
gan: No more shows with DOA then?
Joey-Well.. who knows? Let’s see what we can do!
gan: That’s all Joey, thank you for your time. Hope to see you again on stage, good luck with all your projects!
Check: www.facebook.com/DOAPUNK
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